Interview Transcript Summary

Interviewee: A. Gochiyayev
Date of Interview: August 20, 2002

Document Details

• Recording Medium: Video camera.
• Provided Material: The first minute of the video interview was provided as proof.
• Handwritten Transcript: Received on January 18, 2003, from A. Gochiyayev's sister in Turkey.
• Accuracy Note: The text from the videotape contained many inaccuracies. An accurate transcript of the first minute is provided below.
• Content Concern: The handwritten transcript omitted two surnames of two FSB officers (designated as (K.) and (Kh.)) at the initiative of the tape's owners. The owners expect payment specifically for these omitted surnames.

Verified Transcript (First Minute of Interview)

Note: Judging by the first minute of the video interview, there are no significant distortions of meaning.

Interview Transcript Excerpt

Date: August 20, 2002
Interviewee: A. Gochiyaev

Note: The spelling and punctuation of the document have been preserved. In this interview, much remained off-camera. The names and surnames of those currently active FSB officers involved in these events are known. To this day, they live peacefully in their homes and hold high positions. This is the only interview. The correspondent is a person close to him.

Q&A Transcript

Question: Please introduce yourself?

Answer: I am Gochiyaev Achemez Shagabanovich. I was born in the Karachay-Cherkess Republic. Until 1988, I lived in the KChR. After graduating from school in 1988, I went to Moscow to study. From there, I was drafted into the army. I returned and lived in Moscow again. Until September 1999, I lived in Moscow on Marshal Batukova [Katukova] St.

Question: How did it happen that your name specifically became associated with the bombings in Moscow? The Russian special services accuse you specifically of organizing these bombings in Moscow. Why you specifically?

Answer: How I ended up in this situation. In 1997, I opened a cottage construction firm. I was involved in construction. In the summer of 1999, an old acquaintance of mine, whom I had known since school, came to my firm. His name is (K.). He suggested we go into business together. He said he had places to sell goods, i.e., food products, and asked me to help him. I would supply him with food products, he would sell them and pay me. Once he ordered mineral water from me, I delivered it, and he paid me. Then he asked me to help him rent warehouses in the south of Moscow; he said he had good sales points there. I found 4 premises, showed them to him, and helped rent them. Immediately after this, the explosion on Guryanova St. occurred on September 9. That day I was not at home; I was visiting friends. He called me on my mobile and said that some kind of fire had happened at the warehouse and that I needed to go there. I said: 'Okay,'—and started getting ready. This was already towards morning. I called a taxi and turned on... (text cuts off)

Testimony Transcript

Incident Overview

• The initial event involved a building that was "practically gone" after the morning news.
• A second explosion occurred a few days later on Kashirskoye Highway.
• The witness realized they had been set up.
• The witness immediately contacted the police and the rescue service.
• The witness reported two additional warehouses:
  • One located at Borisovskie Ponds in the Kapotnya district (in a garage box).
  • Another warehouse location was reported.
• Following these events, the witness left Moscow and returned to their republic.

Information Regarding (K.)

• The witness now knows that (K.) openly identifies as an FSB employee working in Cherkessk.
• The witness was unaware of this affiliation while assisting (K.) previously.

Q&A Session

Question: Do you believe that it was specifically (K.) who set you up?

Answer: Yes, of course. I am sure of it, that it was his work. I do not know exactly who was with him or how it was done. The only thing I can tell is that once, returning home, I decided to visit him—he wasn't expecting me. When I entered his home, there was another person there with him. After I said hello, that person left immediately. Following the press, looking through the internet, quite recently I found out who that person was. It was (Kh.)...!!

Question: Are you sure it was exactly the person you saw?

Answer: Yes, I recognized him from a photograph..! Besides that, in late August – early September, (K.) traveled to the city of Ryazan several times and asked me to help him there as well. He allegedly had places to sell goods there, but since he didn't have his own company, he asked me to register the lease of these warehouses under my company. However, he seemingly found another company that helped him rent the premises. I know for certain that (K.) traveled to Ryazan in early September.

Question: Why do you think he chose you specifically, and not someone else, to rent these warehouses?

Answer: As I think, the point is that I worked in Moscow.

Summary Table: Key Locations and Dates

Key Individuals

• K.: FSB employee in Cherkessk.
• Kh.: Person seen with (K.) at his home.
• Witness: The individual providing the testimony.

Key Locations

• Moscow
• Kashirskoye Highway
• Borisovskie Ponds (Kapotnya district)
• Ryazan
• Cherkessk
• Republic (Witness's home region)

Interview Transcript

Employment Details

Question: When did you work?
Answer: In 1997, I worked directly, being engaged in the construction of cottages.

Firm Registration and Location

Question: Was the firm registered?
Answer: Yes. The firm was called "KAPSTROY-2000". My construction office was located in the area of the Barrikadnaya metro station, in a two-story building near the metro.

Allegations and Photos

Question: Information was often presented in the press that you are a Chechen, that specifically the terrorist attacks—the apartment bombings in Moscow—were organized by Khattab, that you were part of Khattab's group. There is a photo published on the internet where you and Khattab are captured in the same frame. How truthful are these photos?
Answer: Regarding this, I can say the following.
* If you are talking about that photo on the internet where I am allegedly with a beard and in a hat next to Khattab—I have seen this photo on the internet.
* This person is not me and doesn't look anything like me, and it has already been proven that this is a photomontage!
* Although the FSB of Russia to this day claims that it is me.
* Why this was done, we now see and understand: A Chechen trail was needed.
* Even in my search documents, I appeared as a Chechen, although my documents were issued by the Karachayevsk ROVD, and, consequently, the FSB definitely knew that I am a Karachay. They needed to link me to Chechnya. It was done for this purpose.
* I was never acquainted with Khattab, nor with his group, and had nothing in common with them. Why this was necessary for them is now obvious.

Reasons for Hiding

Question: You say that you are innocent. What then is the reason that you are hiding?
Answer: The reason is that the special services are diligently searching for me. After the bombings in Moscow, I returned to my homeland and, knowing that I had been framed, understood that now I was forced to hide.
* I lived for some time in my homeland and hid—this was after the events in Moscow in 1999.
* My own brother was working then as the head of the district Criminal Investigation Department, and he warned me through relatives that they had an unspoken order—not to take me alive, i.e., to liquidate me, they warned me.

Testimony Regarding State Operations

Key Concerns and Threats

• The individual has been removed from his post.
• The Russian FSB is reportedly providing large sums of money to liquidate the individual.

Interrogation Transcript

Question: And why do they need your liquidation?

Answer: Because I possess information. I know certain facts, including the names of these "people"-operatives and the true culprits of what happened. This information is not difficult to verify. These individuals are still active FSB officers who often travel to Moscow.

Question: Why don't you contact the Russian embassy and tell them how everything really happened?

Answer: There is no point. This system—NKVD, KGB, FSB—is one system. The name changes, but the essence, methods of work, and goals are the same. They truly have a rich pedigree, and there is no point in trusting them. I know that there will be no benefit for me. I am simply having this conversation now so that the world learns the truth about how it all was. I hope for that.

Question: Do you feel any guilt that you didn't try to bring the truth about these events in Moscow to the world earlier? After all, these explosions were one of Russia's motives for the invasion of Chechnya. Why didn't you declare this earlier?

Answer: Only now have people appeared who are ready to listen, interested in the truth coming to light. Before, no one needed it. I made attempts, but the matter was not given any momentum—people were afraid to show themselves.

Question: Were they afraid specifically of the Russian authorities?

Answer: Yes. They are afraid even now, and they are very much afraid.

Question: What else would you like to say? Are there more convincing facts?

Answer: I have already mentioned some facts. There are others; a great deal remains behind the scenes.

Summary of Key Entities and Concepts

Interrogation Transcript

Question & Answer Log

Question 1

What ultimately prompted you to hide from the authorities? When did you realize that they specifically wanted to frame you? When did you come to this opinion?

Answer:
Immediately after the second explosion, I realized that I had been framed for good. After the first explosion, I didn't fully understand anything. The only thing that alerted me was that (K.) didn't immediately say what had actually happened there. He called my mobile and told me: "Come over, there's been a small fire," although in reality, I saw on TV at that same time that something terrible had happened.

Later I went there, took a look—it was a horrific sight. But I didn't meet with (K.). I arrived, looked, and left. All those fake documents that I supposedly used were prepared by them in advance so that their operation would go successfully and nothing would fail anywhere. They didn't expect not to find me at home, otherwise I wouldn't be talking to you now, or to anyone else.

Question 2

Did anyone contact you after what happened?

Answer:
No. After the 13th, I left Moscow. I know that later Moscow FSB officers were working in our republic. They broke relatives, intimidated them very strongly. I heard they first offered money to my sister. Then, when she refused, threats and demands began for her to give an interview saying that I was capable of this. First by bribery, then by threat. I know that she was taken to a cemetery with a small child, who wasn't even three years old, so that she would give incriminating testimony against me, otherwise they would kill her and her child. Such are the methods of the FSB.

Question 3

How do your friends and acquaintances feel about this?

Answer:
Regarding friends and acquaintances: everyone who knows me doesn't believe that I could have done this.

Question 4

What about the testimony of some prisoners against you?

Answer:
I know that there are some people who are also seemingly accused of terrorist attacks, and these prisoners are giving testimony against me. But knowing the KGB/FSB system, there are 150 million people living in Russia, and under this system, they can always be made witnesses to a certain...

Note: The text ended abruptly in the final answer.

Interview Transcript Excerpts

Analysis of Terrorist Attacks

• FSB Capability: The FSB would not face trouble in executing such an operation.
• Citizen Naivety: The speaker expresses surprise at the naivety of Russian citizens regarding the possibility of bringing 10 tons of explosives into Moscow and carrying out an explosion.
• Conclusion: The speaker asserts that only the special services could accomplish such an act.

Suspect Testimony and FSB Influence

Question: It is being said in the mass media that one of the suspects involved in the terrorist attacks in Russia was detained in Adjara, Western Georgia, and he is allegedly now giving testimony that satisfies the Russian special services. Do you not allow for the possibility that he might give testimony against you? And in general, are you acquainted with this person?

Answer:
* The speaker knows only that a certain Adam Dekkushev was detained and is providing testimony.
* The speaker has no doubt that Adam Dekkushev is giving testimony beneficial to the FSB and will say what the FSB demands.
* This outcome is not surprising given the nature of the system.
* Historical Precedent: The arrest of Beria is cited as an example; on the second day of his arrest, Beria confessed to working for 10 foreign intelligence services.
* General Principle: Consequently, anyone captured by the FSB will say what suits the FSB and what they want to hear.

Nature of Testimonies

Question: Does it follow from this that all these testimonies are fabricated and beaten out of those under investigation by force?

Answer:
* Affirmation: Of course.
* Observation: Any person who has fallen into their hands even once, or encountered this system in any way, knows this is true.

Personal Risk Assessment

Question: Are you not afraid for your life? Are you not afraid of falling into the hands of the special services?

Answer:
* The speaker does not rule out the possibility of this.
* The speaker is aware that the special services are offering large sums of money to liquidate them.

Question: The question is about liquidation?

Interview Transcript Excerpt

Q&A Session

Question: So you are not giving a guarantee for yourself specifically, that in the event of your capture you will not give false testimony against yourself?

Answer: No, of course not. If I end up in their hands, in the hands of the FSB, I will not say what I am saying now; I will say what they want.

Question: Well, if Beria could not withstand these tortures, I think, probably, few people can resist the FSB. And they have many ways to beat out information.

Answer: Of course.

Correspondent: Thank you for agreeing to give us an interview. Thank you very much. And we hope that your interview specifically will shed light on the true perpetrators and masterminds of this crime.

Answer: I also hope for that very much.

Additional Statement

Context: Regarding special services and liquidation.

Statement: Within the special services, the only question is about liquidation. That is, it is not in their interest to take me alive, because I will talk. But it is not excluded that the same thing could happen to me as happened to that person. And I will say what they want to hear from me, even if with my own words I sign my own death warrant. The truth is what I am saying now, while being free. Not in their hands.