Interviewer: So, Patrick just remembered, there was this television... well, they showed it on TV, there were three generals there...

Lev: Yes, on Nikolai Nikolaev's show.

Interviewer: Who claimed on television that what happened in Ryazan was, of course, a normal... a normal process, the normal order of things.

Lev: Yes, yes, I remember.

Interviewer: Well, tell me what...

Lev: In addition to those generals, a large number of residents from that house in Ryazan came there. They were all very outraged, demanding compensation, apologies... And among the residents, there were some older people. One was, I think, a colonel, already retired, who knows perfectly well what exercises are, including the fact that he worked in the police. He said: "There can't be such exercises on living people, it's illegal." So. And they [the generals] looked pale there. I can't reproduce exactly what they said right now. And if we could find Nikolai Nikolaev... The thing is, what was aired on NTV, that program, well, due to timing and a certain format, maybe not so much censorship, or maybe some kind of censorship, internal censorship — everyone understands certain limits there, not to offend someone too much — not everything was included. And Nikolai Nikolaev has the full version. We... well, it didn't work out... I spoke with him once on the phone, he promised, but then he got sick or something, and our commission essentially ended. Well, it's somehow my fault, perhaps, that I didn't show persistence in the search. But the fact is that he has the full version of what was filmed. And he says it's twice as much as what was aired. That would probably be interesting.

Interviewer: And you never tried...

Lev: I tried, it was in 2003.

Interviewer: To talk to the same people who appeared?

Lev: We tried, they didn't open the door for us. There was that one who noticed [the bags], the main hero, Kartofelnikov. There were other residents, I don't recall their names now. No one opened for us. We met one resident, I don't think he was in the program... well, I don't remember, I watched the program, re-watched it about twice... I didn't recognize that person's face, maybe he wasn't there, maybe they didn't show him. He completely lashed out at us. He said, "I'll call the police if you don't leave, you're provoking us."

Interviewer: Those are the residents, but what about the generals themselves? Did you try with them...

Lev: Well, we didn't really try with them, to be honest. We only questioned General Sergeyev, the Tula... Ryazan one. Zdanovich was there, I remember, General Zdanovich. He stopped being the head shortly after that. And I don't know where he is. But I would recommend Nikolai Nikolaev... As far as I know, he's alive. Well, he was about 45 then, at most, maybe even less. Roughly. Well, I don't think he was fifty, so he's still not that old. He worked for a long time on Gusinsky's channel. That's... well, you know, right? And now I don't know.

Interviewer: Good.

Lev: He even lived in Israel, I think, but that was a long time ago. I had one small phone conversation with him and didn't communicate further. But he can be searched for through some... he's a well-known journalist.

Interviewer: Nikolai Nikolaev.

Lev: Nikolai Nikolaev, yes.

Interviewer: Yes, Nikolai. Yes. Okay.